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	<title>Comments on: Three stories about science and the web</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.bioinformaticszen.com/2007/10/three-stories-about-science-and-the-web/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.bioinformaticszen.com/2007/10/three-stories-about-science-and-the-web/</link>
	<description></description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 12 Mar 2010 14:03:38 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Bioinformatics Zen &#187; Three stories about science and the web : The movie</title>
		<link>http://www.bioinformaticszen.com/2007/10/three-stories-about-science-and-the-web/#comment-9212</link>
		<dc:creator>Bioinformatics Zen &#187; Three stories about science and the web : The movie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Jan 2008 14:04:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bioinformaticszen.com/2007/10/three-stories-about-science-and-the-web/#comment-9212</guid>
		<description>[...] a previous post I wrote about how great new web tools are making it easier for scientists too collaborate, find information, and share information. The [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] a previous post I wrote about how great new web tools are making it easier for scientists too collaborate, find information, and share information. The [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://www.bioinformaticszen.com/2007/10/three-stories-about-science-and-the-web/#comment-4285</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Nov 2007 19:15:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bioinformaticszen.com/2007/10/three-stories-about-science-and-the-web/#comment-4285</guid>
		<description>@Pawel
Thanks, I fixed that mistake. As for Google docs, I think you can choose to keep your document hidden. I think they would get into trouble if the document showed up on the net without your consent.

@zhang
Could you tell me what problem you're having. I haven't had any RSS problems recently, though in past there were problems with FeedBurner.

@Mr. Gunn
I enjoyed reading your article, I look forward to the next entries.
I added a link to the original article.

@Dave Crotty
Thanks for that link Dave.
The only I think I can say is check out Zoho, or as Jake suggested ThinkFree.com.
Competition is always good.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Pawel<br />
Thanks, I fixed that mistake. As for Google docs, I think you can choose to keep your document hidden. I think they would get into trouble if the document showed up on the net without your consent.</p>
<p>@zhang<br />
Could you tell me what problem you&#8217;re having. I haven&#8217;t had any RSS problems recently, though in past there were problems with FeedBurner.</p>
<p>@Mr. Gunn<br />
I enjoyed reading your article, I look forward to the next entries.<br />
I added a link to the original article.</p>
<p>@Dave Crotty<br />
Thanks for that link Dave.<br />
The only I think I can say is check out Zoho, or as Jake suggested ThinkFree.com.<br />
Competition is always good.</p>
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		<title>By: Bio::Blogs #16 - Halloween edition &#171; Freelancing science</title>
		<link>http://www.bioinformaticszen.com/2007/10/three-stories-about-science-and-the-web/#comment-4258</link>
		<dc:creator>Bio::Blogs #16 - Halloween edition &#171; Freelancing science</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Nov 2007 00:30:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bioinformaticszen.com/2007/10/three-stories-about-science-and-the-web/#comment-4258</guid>
		<description>[...] Barton from Bioinformatics Zen posted three stories explaining how web technologies may improve scientific communication, plus he shared his thoughts [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Barton from Bioinformatics Zen posted three stories explaining how web technologies may improve scientific communication, plus he shared his thoughts [...]</p>
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		<title>By: David Crotty</title>
		<link>http://www.bioinformaticszen.com/2007/10/three-stories-about-science-and-the-web/#comment-4195</link>
		<dc:creator>David Crotty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Oct 2007 15:33:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bioinformaticszen.com/2007/10/three-stories-about-science-and-the-web/#comment-4195</guid>
		<description>Thought this might be of interest in terms of how useful Google Docs is for collaborating on documents (short answer--the key word is "beta"):

http://www.neilgaiman.com/journal/2007/10/simplicity-of-black.html

"I've been using Google Documents to share ODD AND THE FROST GIANTS with people who needed to see it... and just realised that none of the little corrections and fixes I've been entering -- and dutifully saving -- have been saved. Instead it seems to have taken a version of the document open in Google Documents on another computer somewhere in the house as its master text, which means the saves I've done on the downstairs computer I'm on have apparently not taken. (I've sat there going through all the old saved versions it's kept -- 121 of them and they only seem to go back and forwards between a couple of versions in which a But changes to a Still, because at a guess it's open in two different tabs somewhere on whichever computer it's on that Google is paying attention to...) Between the people who can't get in to see it and write me grumbly emails, and the way Google Documents sometimes fails to send the letters inviting people to look at it (but still lists them as now having access to the document), I think I should have paid a bit more attention to the word BETA underneath the words Google and Documents."</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thought this might be of interest in terms of how useful Google Docs is for collaborating on documents (short answer&#8211;the key word is &#8220;beta&#8221;):</p>
<p><a href="http://www.neilgaiman.com/journal/2007/10/simplicity-of-black.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.neilgaiman.com/journal/2007/10/simplicity-of-black.html</a></p>
<p>&#8220;I&#8217;ve been using Google Documents to share ODD AND THE FROST GIANTS with people who needed to see it&#8230; and just realised that none of the little corrections and fixes I&#8217;ve been entering &#8212; and dutifully saving &#8212; have been saved. Instead it seems to have taken a version of the document open in Google Documents on another computer somewhere in the house as its master text, which means the saves I&#8217;ve done on the downstairs computer I&#8217;m on have apparently not taken. (I&#8217;ve sat there going through all the old saved versions it&#8217;s kept &#8212; 121 of them and they only seem to go back and forwards between a couple of versions in which a But changes to a Still, because at a guess it&#8217;s open in two different tabs somewhere on whichever computer it&#8217;s on that Google is paying attention to&#8230;) Between the people who can&#8217;t get in to see it and write me grumbly emails, and the way Google Documents sometimes fails to send the letters inviting people to look at it (but still lists them as now having access to the document), I think I should have paid a bit more attention to the word BETA underneath the words Google and Documents.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: What&#8217;s the killer app for the scientific web? at Synthesis</title>
		<link>http://www.bioinformaticszen.com/2007/10/three-stories-about-science-and-the-web/#comment-3933</link>
		<dc:creator>What&#8217;s the killer app for the scientific web? at Synthesis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Oct 2007 23:00:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bioinformaticszen.com/2007/10/three-stories-about-science-and-the-web/#comment-3933</guid>
		<description>[...] out the three stories about scientists using the web at Bioinformatics [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] out the three stories about scientists using the web at Bioinformatics [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Mr. Gunn</title>
		<link>http://www.bioinformaticszen.com/2007/10/three-stories-about-science-and-the-web/#comment-3932</link>
		<dc:creator>Mr. Gunn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Oct 2007 22:58:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bioinformaticszen.com/2007/10/three-stories-about-science-and-the-web/#comment-3932</guid>
		<description>I was just coming up with some "use cases" for an &lt;a href="http://synthesis.williamgunn.org/2007/10/24/whats-the-killer-app-for-the-scientific-web/" rel="nofollow"&gt;intro to scientific blogging&lt;/a&gt; article I was writing.  I like yours better.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was just coming up with some &#8220;use cases&#8221; for an <a href="http://synthesis.williamgunn.org/2007/10/24/whats-the-killer-app-for-the-scientific-web/" rel="nofollow">intro to scientific blogging</a> article I was writing.  I like yours better.</p>
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		<title>By: zhang</title>
		<link>http://www.bioinformaticszen.com/2007/10/three-stories-about-science-and-the-web/#comment-3814</link>
		<dc:creator>zhang</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Oct 2007 10:14:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bioinformaticszen.com/2007/10/three-stories-about-science-and-the-web/#comment-3814</guid>
		<description>hi, Why your RSS is not available? I wanta subscribe your blog.
Thanks!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>hi, Why your RSS is not available? I wanta subscribe your blog.<br />
Thanks!</p>
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		<title>By: Pawel</title>
		<link>http://www.bioinformaticszen.com/2007/10/three-stories-about-science-and-the-web/#comment-3795</link>
		<dc:creator>Pawel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Oct 2007 20:00:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bioinformaticszen.com/2007/10/three-stories-about-science-and-the-web/#comment-3795</guid>
		<description>Great post Mike. One small thing - there's still Alex in the last story :).

One of the concerns I heard about using Google Docs for collaboration on the scientific paper was privacy issue. Google's privacy agreement is not the best available and my colleagues were worried about showing their work to Google (and risk a leak to the public via search engine). While I don't see a possible data leak as an issue (we are about the open science, aren't we?), other people still do. This is somehow complementary to the issues Jacob raised - it's all about trust in externally/privately hosted services (yes, in this light, Facebook is also not-good).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great post Mike. One small thing - there&#8217;s still Alex in the last story :).</p>
<p>One of the concerns I heard about using Google Docs for collaboration on the scientific paper was privacy issue. Google&#8217;s privacy agreement is not the best available and my colleagues were worried about showing their work to Google (and risk a leak to the public via search engine). While I don&#8217;t see a possible data leak as an issue (we are about the open science, aren&#8217;t we?), other people still do. This is somehow complementary to the issues Jacob raised - it&#8217;s all about trust in externally/privately hosted services (yes, in this light, Facebook is also not-good).</p>
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		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://www.bioinformaticszen.com/2007/10/three-stories-about-science-and-the-web/#comment-3784</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Oct 2007 13:20:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bioinformaticszen.com/2007/10/three-stories-about-science-and-the-web/#comment-3784</guid>
		<description>@Giovanni
Yes I agree that online word processors do lack a lot of the functionality compared with those that can be installed on your computer, however they do have the advantage of being always the latest version, and you don't have to worry about maintaining them either. The fact that they're always there when you have an internet connection is useful too.
I also agree that using online tools is not for everyone either, but like so many things I have found in science so far, you have to muddle along making compromises as you go.

@Deepak
That is a great point, so many "walled gardens" are a hindrance especially when switching to a new and better tool, and you have to create a username and id. However, I'd say that OpenID is still somewhat esoteric to use, but once it becomes easier, I think I will be using it more.

@Jacob
What I have always wanted to see is some kind of svn-google docs-wiki standard interface, so people can use which ever type they prefer, but all the changes are sent to the same document repository. 
For example I use Google Docs to edit the document, but you prefer LaTeX and svn, so when you update the repository my Google Docs changes are translated into the LaTeX in the svn repository you are using, and vice versa.

@Jake
I've never heard of that, but it looks good. Thank you pointing it out.

@Jean-Claude
Easy and free are definitely important considerations. Both equally important, but ease of use it what is going to attract the non computer based biologists to using these technologies.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Giovanni<br />
Yes I agree that online word processors do lack a lot of the functionality compared with those that can be installed on your computer, however they do have the advantage of being always the latest version, and you don&#8217;t have to worry about maintaining them either. The fact that they&#8217;re always there when you have an internet connection is useful too.<br />
I also agree that using online tools is not for everyone either, but like so many things I have found in science so far, you have to muddle along making compromises as you go.</p>
<p>@Deepak<br />
That is a great point, so many &#8220;walled gardens&#8221; are a hindrance especially when switching to a new and better tool, and you have to create a username and id. However, I&#8217;d say that OpenID is still somewhat esoteric to use, but once it becomes easier, I think I will be using it more.</p>
<p>@Jacob<br />
What I have always wanted to see is some kind of svn-google docs-wiki standard interface, so people can use which ever type they prefer, but all the changes are sent to the same document repository.<br />
For example I use Google Docs to edit the document, but you prefer LaTeX and svn, so when you update the repository my Google Docs changes are translated into the LaTeX in the svn repository you are using, and vice versa.</p>
<p>@Jake<br />
I&#8217;ve never heard of that, but it looks good. Thank you pointing it out.</p>
<p>@Jean-Claude<br />
Easy and free are definitely important considerations. Both equally important, but ease of use it what is going to attract the non computer based biologists to using these technologies.</p>
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		<title>By: Jean-Claude Bradley</title>
		<link>http://www.bioinformaticszen.com/2007/10/three-stories-about-science-and-the-web/#comment-3782</link>
		<dc:creator>Jean-Claude Bradley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Oct 2007 12:46:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bioinformaticszen.com/2007/10/three-stories-about-science-and-the-web/#comment-3782</guid>
		<description>Most of what you propose can and does work.  The technology will keep changing and people will tend use what is easy and free.  

The point of publishing is to communicate research and network.  In addition to journal articles we now have Web2.0 tools that will give those who choose to use them a competitive advantage.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Most of what you propose can and does work.  The technology will keep changing and people will tend use what is easy and free.  </p>
<p>The point of publishing is to communicate research and network.  In addition to journal articles we now have Web2.0 tools that will give those who choose to use them a competitive advantage.</p>
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		<title>By: Jake</title>
		<link>http://www.bioinformaticszen.com/2007/10/three-stories-about-science-and-the-web/#comment-3720</link>
		<dc:creator>Jake</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Oct 2007 01:47:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bioinformaticszen.com/2007/10/three-stories-about-science-and-the-web/#comment-3720</guid>
		<description>As of right now ThinkFree.com beats Google Docs, from my experience --especially if you're used to MS Office.  Google is likely to catch up eventually, but they're not there yet</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As of right now ThinkFree.com beats Google Docs, from my experience &#8211;especially if you&#8217;re used to MS Office.  Google is likely to catch up eventually, but they&#8217;re not there yet</p>
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		<title>By: Jacob Frelinger</title>
		<link>http://www.bioinformaticszen.com/2007/10/three-stories-about-science-and-the-web/#comment-3719</link>
		<dc:creator>Jacob Frelinger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Oct 2007 01:15:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bioinformaticszen.com/2007/10/three-stories-about-science-and-the-web/#comment-3719</guid>
		<description>There are other ways to collaborate writing documents then sharing with google etc.   Just like your source code, your documents should be under revision control.  We've been using mercurial for ours and its proven very effective.  I'll admit that since we've been writing in LaTeX, our documents do very very well in revision control but it do able in other word processors as well.  This also solves problems of who can do what with your data (today google is trying to do no evil, but what happens when they refocus their business and decide google doc's aren't worth it).  So why force everyone to use a new tool, when existing ones they're probably already using work?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There are other ways to collaborate writing documents then sharing with google etc.   Just like your source code, your documents should be under revision control.  We&#8217;ve been using mercurial for ours and its proven very effective.  I&#8217;ll admit that since we&#8217;ve been writing in LaTeX, our documents do very very well in revision control but it do able in other word processors as well.  This also solves problems of who can do what with your data (today google is trying to do no evil, but what happens when they refocus their business and decide google doc&#8217;s aren&#8217;t worth it).  So why force everyone to use a new tool, when existing ones they&#8217;re probably already using work?</p>
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		<title>By: Deepak</title>
		<link>http://www.bioinformaticszen.com/2007/10/three-stories-about-science-and-the-web/#comment-3717</link>
		<dc:creator>Deepak</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Oct 2007 21:28:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bioinformaticszen.com/2007/10/three-stories-about-science-and-the-web/#comment-3717</guid>
		<description>It's another reason why OpenID is so important.  Even web 2.0 junkies get tired of setting up all these accounts.  Support for OpenAuth will also go a long way in allowing relationships to be portable.

Mike ... fabulous post.  Technologies like Google Docs are still very young, but are already getting very advanced.  In a year or two, I can't think of too many reasons not to collaborate over the web.

You are already seeing efforts that integrate services. It is also another reason why open APIs are required allowing people to mash up services.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s another reason why OpenID is so important.  Even web 2.0 junkies get tired of setting up all these accounts.  Support for OpenAuth will also go a long way in allowing relationships to be portable.</p>
<p>Mike &#8230; fabulous post.  Technologies like Google Docs are still very young, but are already getting very advanced.  In a year or two, I can&#8217;t think of too many reasons not to collaborate over the web.</p>
<p>You are already seeing efforts that integrate services. It is also another reason why open APIs are required allowing people to mash up services.</p>
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		<title>By: Giovanni</title>
		<link>http://www.bioinformaticszen.com/2007/10/three-stories-about-science-and-the-web/#comment-3707</link>
		<dc:creator>Giovanni</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Oct 2007 16:06:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bioinformaticszen.com/2007/10/three-stories-about-science-and-the-web/#comment-3707</guid>
		<description>Interesting, but unfortunately it is not so simple.


Collaborating on the same document

- the interfaces of google/docs and even zoho are very uncomfortable to use. They lack various options compared to openoffice and other word processors. 
For example, you can't re-define your own styles; you can't create automatically indexes and more other things; they are slower; and many other things.

- it is very difficult to persuade other lab members to create their own account on zoho or google/docs if they're not 'web 2.0 nerds' :).
Most of the professors, are accustomed to work by printing the documents on paper and annotating it with a pen; and I believe, it is very difficult to persuade them of learning other methods. 
Most of the professors use old things like word editors and sheets, but they are very experienced at using them.


However, I'll stop moaning... because I think it is worth trying to persuade other scientists and show them these cool web 2.0 ideas. I really hope the science of the future will be like you have described in this post.

I have learned very much by using Internet and participating to forums and blogs on biology, and I think I will continue in this way.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting, but unfortunately it is not so simple.</p>
<p>Collaborating on the same document</p>
<p>- the interfaces of google/docs and even zoho are very uncomfortable to use. They lack various options compared to openoffice and other word processors.<br />
For example, you can&#8217;t re-define your own styles; you can&#8217;t create automatically indexes and more other things; they are slower; and many other things.</p>
<p>- it is very difficult to persuade other lab members to create their own account on zoho or google/docs if they&#8217;re not &#8216;web 2.0 nerds&#8217; :).<br />
Most of the professors, are accustomed to work by printing the documents on paper and annotating it with a pen; and I believe, it is very difficult to persuade them of learning other methods.<br />
Most of the professors use old things like word editors and sheets, but they are very experienced at using them.</p>
<p>However, I&#8217;ll stop moaning&#8230; because I think it is worth trying to persuade other scientists and show them these cool web 2.0 ideas. I really hope the science of the future will be like you have described in this post.</p>
<p>I have learned very much by using Internet and participating to forums and blogs on biology, and I think I will continue in this way.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://www.bioinformaticszen.com/2007/10/three-stories-about-science-and-the-web/#comment-3706</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Oct 2007 15:55:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bioinformaticszen.com/2007/10/three-stories-about-science-and-the-web/#comment-3706</guid>
		<description>This is an excellent point Gail. In my defense I would say that being an under-pressure third year PhD student in a bioinformatics department, I have very little time for going out and therefore contant with the opposite sex. I suspect that this is reflected in two of the stories ending with the protagonist finding a girlfriend: some one here suggested that perhaps I am projecting something of my persona into the stories.

It is a sad day when I realise I am living vicariously through fictional characters written on a bioinformatics blog.

I have updated the last story.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is an excellent point Gail. In my defense I would say that being an under-pressure third year PhD student in a bioinformatics department, I have very little time for going out and therefore contant with the opposite sex. I suspect that this is reflected in two of the stories ending with the protagonist finding a girlfriend: some one here suggested that perhaps I am projecting something of my persona into the stories.</p>
<p>It is a sad day when I realise I am living vicariously through fictional characters written on a bioinformatics blog.</p>
<p>I have updated the last story.</p>
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		<title>By: Gail</title>
		<link>http://www.bioinformaticszen.com/2007/10/three-stories-about-science-and-the-web/#comment-3702</link>
		<dc:creator>Gail</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Oct 2007 14:36:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bioinformaticszen.com/2007/10/three-stories-about-science-and-the-web/#comment-3702</guid>
		<description>Interesting, where are the women in this story?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting, where are the women in this story?</p>
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